Thank you for blessing us with this, Jason, and for your steadfast work with Abide and the broader assemblies of the CRC. This reflection on the correct application of church order and its relation to the covenant for office bearers is articulated nicely and will prove a helpful guide to congregants and office bearers as they consider their own alignment to our three forms and discern any call to leadership.
The Gospel lectionary this week reminds us that the Sabbath was made for humankind. The powerful people didn’t like that very much and wanted him to stop disturbing the status quo. Jesus showed how easy it is to misinterpret and misuse the law.
Your thought system is tightly structured and appears so logical as to be irrefutable. That is an illusion. Your system relies on views of God, Grace, and the church that are flawed. I’d need an essay to fully explain, so I’ll make just one crucial point here.
You, Jason, and every one of us are God’s Beloved. God called us that, and there is nothing we can do about it. We can’t earn it by constructing more detailed explanations of the confessions, or adhering religiously to a human-made rulebook( Church Order), or relentlessly forcing conformity through a loyalty oath. We are God’s Beloved even when our minds cause us to have conscientious disagreements. We don’t have to circle the wagons and prove who is Beloved. We already are. And that affects everything, especially how we treat each other. Even those who thoughtfully disagree publicly through gravamina are the Beloved. God does not push them away, as if Grace had exceptions. Nor should the church.
Thomas, I appreciate the comment and the pushback.
I would only have to say that there is nothing in this article stating that someone who disagrees with our confessions is not considered God's Beloved. That's not the point at all. There are many people who are God's Beloved in many different denominations and I am very thankful for them. Most of my family members are solid, God-fearing believers who are part of other denominations and could not serve in the CRCNA in good conscience. That doesn't mean they aren't God's Beloved, it just means they aren't in the CRCNA, and that's fine.
Here's the point being made in this article: in order to be an office bearer in the CRCNA, you have to sign a Covenant with certain commitments. How can anyone, in good conscience, sign a Covenant while not actually holding to that covenant? How can anyone who no longer holds to that Covenant continue to serve in good conscience? That's the point I was trying to make.
Am I the only one who reads this as “yes you are God’s Beloved, but just not here”? As in go find a different club, because we’re too good for your imperfection?
Maybe as an “outsider” to this whole Abide thing, I’m just not used to how casually harsh you guys are here. To others who read and write this stuff everyday maybe it seems as common as reading a weather report.
Seems the actions of this week say that no, some of us are no longer God’s beloved, nor are we welcome in the Abide club (aka The New Era of the CRC). Wondering with dread what I will see in my church over the next few weeks. Thank you all.
I think current efforts to force individuals out of church office and congregations or even a whole Classis out of the CRC fail to take into account the harm being done to real people and as a result to the denomination as a whole. In the name of orthodoxy, only one way of thinking is tolerated. You think it is a matter of integrity and good conscience for people who hold a minority view to fall in line or withdraw, and you ignore that for many it is expressing conscientious objection that has integrity. You design a careful system of doctrinal control and tell people to go be the Beloved somewhere else. You tell people their salvation is at risk and dismiss their defensible difference in biblical and confessional interpretation. Your insistence on uniformity is a barrier to the Spirit and the faith of other Christ followers.
I first signed the Form of Subscription, as they used to call it, 50 yrs ago when it still meant detesting Anabaptists. I was silent about my disagreement. Now as an elder you want me to re-sign a new covenant that has me rejecting people in committed same-sex marriages from full membership in my church, and you say my salvation is in jeopardy because my study and my conscience lead me to conclude that God blesses same-sex unions. You say that i cannot in good conscience remain in office. And you have the temerity to say I am Beloved while treating me otherwise. That was my point that you missed.
God loved me from before I was born and now while I am less than fully sanctified. My chains fell off when I understood that God’s love did not depend on my understanding of every doctrine or perfect alignment with what those in control think. I am set free.
You are bound, not by sin, but by your presumption of correctness, unless certainty is a sin. Keeping everyone in the church thinking alike is not God’s demand; it’s yours and Abide’s. I can forgive you because you know not what you are doing. What you think is loving and righteous is not. Many will leave because you are forcing your ways on others in the name of preserving the distinctiveness of one faith tradition. You want me to go quietly, leaving the church that mothered me for over seven decades. I cannot in good conscience do that.
Thank you for blessing us with this, Jason, and for your steadfast work with Abide and the broader assemblies of the CRC. This reflection on the correct application of church order and its relation to the covenant for office bearers is articulated nicely and will prove a helpful guide to congregants and office bearers as they consider their own alignment to our three forms and discern any call to leadership.
The Gospel lectionary this week reminds us that the Sabbath was made for humankind. The powerful people didn’t like that very much and wanted him to stop disturbing the status quo. Jesus showed how easy it is to misinterpret and misuse the law.
Your thought system is tightly structured and appears so logical as to be irrefutable. That is an illusion. Your system relies on views of God, Grace, and the church that are flawed. I’d need an essay to fully explain, so I’ll make just one crucial point here.
You, Jason, and every one of us are God’s Beloved. God called us that, and there is nothing we can do about it. We can’t earn it by constructing more detailed explanations of the confessions, or adhering religiously to a human-made rulebook( Church Order), or relentlessly forcing conformity through a loyalty oath. We are God’s Beloved even when our minds cause us to have conscientious disagreements. We don’t have to circle the wagons and prove who is Beloved. We already are. And that affects everything, especially how we treat each other. Even those who thoughtfully disagree publicly through gravamina are the Beloved. God does not push them away, as if Grace had exceptions. Nor should the church.
Thomas, I appreciate the comment and the pushback.
I would only have to say that there is nothing in this article stating that someone who disagrees with our confessions is not considered God's Beloved. That's not the point at all. There are many people who are God's Beloved in many different denominations and I am very thankful for them. Most of my family members are solid, God-fearing believers who are part of other denominations and could not serve in the CRCNA in good conscience. That doesn't mean they aren't God's Beloved, it just means they aren't in the CRCNA, and that's fine.
Here's the point being made in this article: in order to be an office bearer in the CRCNA, you have to sign a Covenant with certain commitments. How can anyone, in good conscience, sign a Covenant while not actually holding to that covenant? How can anyone who no longer holds to that Covenant continue to serve in good conscience? That's the point I was trying to make.
Hope that helps clear things up a little bit.
Am I the only one who reads this as “yes you are God’s Beloved, but just not here”? As in go find a different club, because we’re too good for your imperfection?
Maybe as an “outsider” to this whole Abide thing, I’m just not used to how casually harsh you guys are here. To others who read and write this stuff everyday maybe it seems as common as reading a weather report.
Seems the actions of this week say that no, some of us are no longer God’s beloved, nor are we welcome in the Abide club (aka The New Era of the CRC). Wondering with dread what I will see in my church over the next few weeks. Thank you all.
Thanks for your quick response.
I think current efforts to force individuals out of church office and congregations or even a whole Classis out of the CRC fail to take into account the harm being done to real people and as a result to the denomination as a whole. In the name of orthodoxy, only one way of thinking is tolerated. You think it is a matter of integrity and good conscience for people who hold a minority view to fall in line or withdraw, and you ignore that for many it is expressing conscientious objection that has integrity. You design a careful system of doctrinal control and tell people to go be the Beloved somewhere else. You tell people their salvation is at risk and dismiss their defensible difference in biblical and confessional interpretation. Your insistence on uniformity is a barrier to the Spirit and the faith of other Christ followers.
I first signed the Form of Subscription, as they used to call it, 50 yrs ago when it still meant detesting Anabaptists. I was silent about my disagreement. Now as an elder you want me to re-sign a new covenant that has me rejecting people in committed same-sex marriages from full membership in my church, and you say my salvation is in jeopardy because my study and my conscience lead me to conclude that God blesses same-sex unions. You say that i cannot in good conscience remain in office. And you have the temerity to say I am Beloved while treating me otherwise. That was my point that you missed.
God loved me from before I was born and now while I am less than fully sanctified. My chains fell off when I understood that God’s love did not depend on my understanding of every doctrine or perfect alignment with what those in control think. I am set free.
You are bound, not by sin, but by your presumption of correctness, unless certainty is a sin. Keeping everyone in the church thinking alike is not God’s demand; it’s yours and Abide’s. I can forgive you because you know not what you are doing. What you think is loving and righteous is not. Many will leave because you are forcing your ways on others in the name of preserving the distinctiveness of one faith tradition. You want me to go quietly, leaving the church that mothered me for over seven decades. I cannot in good conscience do that.